Navigating uncertainty in the supply chain: Strategies for success in 2023

Shipwell CEO and Cofounder, Greg Price, joins Tom Raftery on this episode of the Digital Supply Chain podcast as they discuss how events of recent years have impacted the supply chain industry, and what businesses need to consider in order to navigate the coming months.

Highlighting the challenges faced by companies during the pandemic, as well as how they have responded to the changes and disruptions in demand and the supply chain, Greg also talks about how technology has played a crucial role in helping companies navigate these issues, and how automation has enabled companies to optimize their supply chain operations.

Strong leadership can drive results and foster a dialogue on what needs to be focused on to achieve success in the year ahead, and to identify opportunities for growth, it's important to take a step back and see the bigger picture.

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To learn more about the tools that Shipwell provides businesses in order to stay ahead in a volatile market, visit our website or speak to an expert today.

Transcript

Tom Raftery: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Digital Supply Chain podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Digital Supply Chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery, and today I'm excited to announce a new way for you to support this podcast. If you find value in this podcast and want to help me continue creating informative and engaging episodes. I invite you to visit the podcast support page by going to www.digital supply chain, podcast.com. And clicking on support button in the podcast logo, or by following the link in the show notes. You can make a small regular donation starting at just three euros a month. That's less than the cost of a cup of coffee. And I'd like to extend my sincere gratitude to Krishna Kumar. And Christophe Kottelat who joined Lorcan Sheehan as some of the first listeners to step up and support this podcast. I hope you'll consider supporting my mission to keep the conversation on trends and best practices in supply chain going. Now. Joining me today on the podcast. I have my special guest, Greg. Greg, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Greg Price: Yes. My name's Greg Price. Happy to be here. So I'm the CEO and co-founder of Shipwell. Where we build software and services to modernize supply chains. So happy to be here and chatting about all things supply chain.

Tom Raftery: Okay, great. Now, modernizing supply chains, that's, kind of broad and supply chain itself is extremely broad. I've covered everything on this podcast from engineering, planning, manufacturing delivery, operations, service management, reverse logistics. I'm guessing you're not spanning and modernizing all of that am I right?

Greg Price: That's right. Supply chain is a relatively large value chain, and you just articulated many of the different segments in that. Most folks are not as, as in the know as you are when you even mentioned supply chain. They just assume that bananas show up in the grocery store and it's a simple process to get there. But as you know, there's a demand planning element. There's actually picking up them. There's the movement of, in a refrigerated container on a slow boat, going to a port, going to a drayage, going to a, distribution hub that then ends up in a grocery store that might even go the final mile to a customer. And when you think about all of those elements and those movement of goods, there are different pieces than value chain different issues along the way. My background, just shortly, I was at McKinsey & Company before, Shipwell, and I was in their operations practice doing kind of big data and supply chain consulting, working on some of the largest supply chains in the world. And here was companies that can afford anything, any tool, any, anybody. And they had no idea how much they spent, where's all their stuff, what their current performance looks like. And and really, I saw this again in oil and gas, retail, grocery, medical products. And it was the same reoccurring theme. It's people have built their supply chains in a silo where they're doing local optimum and they have very little visibility. They certainly weren't doing the things that I was doing at M I T, doing advanced analytics and machine learning. They're just simply trying to figure out what actually is happening or what has happened. And so Shipwell specifically was meant to go solve some of those transportation specific problems around everything from the execution, the planning, the execution, the visibility elements of understanding what, what's happening in your supply chain and the collaboration elements with all of your vendors. So specifically, Shipwell builds what's called a transportation management software or TMS, and that handles everything from planning execution, visibility, settlement, and the automation along with bringing in real time capacity and connecting people's supply chains together so that they can actually go run an efficient supply chain. So we historically do everything from drayage, full truckload, less than truckload parcel, final mile ocean container tracking, those real-time visibility elements. All in a single unified modern microservice platform that people use. We have some of the largest companies now in North America using some, using our platform, and we're one of the fastest growing in market to date.

Tom Raftery: Okay. The last two and a half years have been incredibly disruptive to supply chains all over. How has it impacted you guys?

Greg Price: Well. Like most businesses, when Covid hit in 2020, there was a lot of uncertainty, right? And you saw disruptions both on supply side and demand side. You had people thought the, consumer demand was going to fall off a cliff and purchasing was gonna go to zero. So, That negates the need to move things around or to buy software or services that moves things around. But we actually saw we had some of our best months ever in 2020. We have grown since 2020. We to 2021. We grew around 300%. 2021 to 2022, we did the same thing 300%. And so far, even this year, we've grown around 300%. So what Covid did was spotlight exactly what Shipwell has been talking about, which is you need a digital technology to really understand what's going on with your supply chain. You need to have real-time information and connectivity with your supply chain assets and suppliers and vendors and carriers so that you can collaborate more effectively in real time. And then you need, you're gonna need to do this in a remote world. You're gonna need to do this with a brand new workforce that has maybe not, has the supply chain experience. And so you need something that's easy, simple and powerful, that you can go and execute. So I think all the elements that we were talking about early on with Shipwell, real-time visibility, connectivity with your carrier base and your supply chain assets. Having this modern platform resonated really well with a lot of companies and surprisingly, those that actually used our platform saw almost zero disruption during this time. Obviously, they had issues along their supply chain with demand potentially changing, trying to get capacity, things of that nature. But having a digital technology, the analytics, the visibility certainly helped mitigate a lot of those disruptions.

Tom Raftery: And how, I mean, were they doing things like increasing their, the, the size of their safety stock, or what were they doing?

Greg Price: Well, so, different industries took a different strategy if you've got low margin, non-durable goods, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna have predictable demand and irrespective if you're going through disruption or not. Those supply chains have really been built to minimize cost. And so I think of like, an Eisenhower grid. You've got slow moving, low margin supply chains here in the lower left, but then you've got crazy demand variability and high expensive goods. Things like non durables, like electronics in that upper quadrant that required a different approach. Those supply chains need to be built for speed, right? The opportunity cost of missing the sell of one additional HDTV is really, really costly compared to the inventory holding costs that you would have. Interestingly enough, in talking with a lot of my network which is I'm from the Leaders for Global Operations Program at M I T, many of those folks have gone on to run supply chains at some of the biggest companies in the world. In talking with some of them, they saw really interesting things. What they saw was demand planning was turned on its head, meaning some people that had low run SKUs, there was a run on those low run skews because everyone was kind of panic purchasing. So for example, when you're in Covid, a lot of people picked up arts and crafts. And so there was a big retailer store where they had a run on sewing machines and fabrics, and because those are low run SKUs, they couldn't manufacture those fast enough to get them out in time. And their supply chains were really built on a slow boat coming from Asia or Europe. And with a 46 to 56 day lead time, that doesn't offer you a lot of opportunity to go and actually fulfill those goods. So you saw people shift a lot of planning to things like air freight, which is incredibly costly. And so you saw modal changes. You saw demand planning changes, which people realized. Demand planning is becoming more and more of. You have to become more and more of an expert in this because your variability and demand is changing like that in this new world of e-comm, and people just haven't simply invested in really, really good demand planning. And then ultimately, it's a strategy change for a supply chain. Meaning are you optimized for low cost, extreme predictability? Or are you optimized to fulfill real goods fast? And, and so we saw a lot of companies do things like try to add more nodes to their network. So you see, and this is, this is gonna be a theme, but you'll see more companies try to add more distribution nodes to their network in order to reduce the amount of lead time variability to their end customers so that they can fulfill faster. The unfortunate flip side to that is you have to carry more safety stock and there is a true cost to do that. And in order to actually do that correctly, you need to have really, really good signals and demand planning and a good handle on the actual lead times for your supply chain and the cost associated with those, which most companies historically have not had that capability.

Tom Raftery: And I should have asked earlier, is there any particular industry that you deal with? I mean, you mentioned bananas. Was that kind of because you specialize in food or was that just a, a random choice?

Greg Price: Oh, that was more of a random choice based on my, kids and their love for bananas and how many we go through in our household. But Shipwell, specifically, we have around five key verticals that, are adopting our technology fast. The first one is food and beverage. We see we do a lot of these really fast up and coming brands that have to distribute food and beverages across North America and other places. So, we deal a lot with refrigerated carriers and connectivity options and warehousing and all of that sort of thing. And so that's one of the biggest ones, and you saw a lot of these new brands actually come around in the last couple of years. So some of our customers are some of the biggest meal kit producers in North America, right. And they're everything from protein to tailored meal kits to to specialty meal kits. So we see a lot of those. The next one really is around manufacturing. So interestingly enough, as Covid hit, manufacturers have really seen that we're seeing this, resurgence of nearshoring and better planning for manufacturing goods. And so we actually have seen a lot of these older industries. We have a company that's from 1800 s that does, recycling that really start to adopt digital technologies to help their supply chain run more effectively. And then we've got a lot of different manufacturers do everything from plastics to metals, to wood flooring, to every vertical that you can look around in your house, 80% of it has to go on the back of a truck. Those companies are adopting digital technologies to help them do everything from procure more effectively which is an element I didn't hit on previously, but that's a big one. Transportation, if you look at this from the lowest tier running supply chain transportation is approximately 15% to 25% of top line revenue. That's the lowest performing quartile of companies. The highest quartile of performing companies, it's approximately five, five ish percent if you're manufacturing goods. So there's a pretty big delta between companies that have invested in a really good supply chain from those that have not, and it's it, it shows up in the bottom line as well. So those are some of the verticals that we, that we attack. Food and beverage manufacturing, retail those are some of our biggest verticals and, and we see a lot of direct to consumer as well. These businesses that are trying to go and do things like drop shipping in, in those sort of things.

Tom Raftery: And geographically, are you just North America?

Greg Price: Well, we are primarily in North America, but we're not solely in North America, so we have different freight forwarders that actually manage transportation that comes externally from Asia, Europe, EMEA, that comes into the United States. So traditionally we started in North America and now those shippers have supply chains that span the globe. And what they're looking to do with Shipwell is turn on those other elements in their supply chain to bring it into one place. And so as we've built out our capabilities, we've increased geographical coverage. So we start in the US and then we take those supply chains and expand it further. So now we've got folks that will track containers from Asia and then the drayage move. And because they'll have that complete visibility, they'll want more. So they'll want to go to have this multi echelon visibility. So, hey, now we got it at the port of discharge, how can we get it now coming from the factory? Can we get it now further up in the planning cycle? So that's where we're headed, but our primary focus is just completely being dominant in North America. And then using that to expand into other geographies.

Tom Raftery: Fair enough. What kind of changes are you seeing in the holiday season 2022? From 2021, 2020, 2019, if any, and how do you think that'll impact going forward into 2023?

Greg Price: Well, let me talk about the signals that we see inside Shipwell, and then I'll link that to some of the external signals that we're seeing. So we saw an early sales season, so if you've, if you've seen retailers have started their sales early October, so it pulled forward a lot of that demand that typically starts happening post Thanksgiving. In the US at least, so this is, north America specific. But all of the retailers, big ones, target, best Buy, Amazon, Walmart, all of these retailers were giving out deals and discounts starting in early October. And what that's done is flattened the spike in the demand curve from the holiday season. And so what that's done is it hasn't put as big of a strain on the transportation network. So you've seen, ocean container rates as well as over the road trucking rates continue to be in free fall. So since their height, ocean container rates almost 50% of where they were, trucking rates, same thing. Spot rates 45% from their highs, almost 50% in some markets. So that's a general loosening of demand. And so that supply of assets has to, to counteract that to, so to keep those assets actually utilized their dropping prices. So interestingly enough, what we've seen a lot of our customers have low margin, non, non-durable goods. And so their demand stayed the same, if not increased. Those, high dollar, high margin goods. Those have seen the most change and variability in demand. One, we, we've got quite a, quite a few big customers, one of which is a very large retailer on our platform. They had a record Black Friday, so they saw everything from beauty products to clothing and retail. They had their biggest Black Friday and Cyber Mondays ever in the history of their business. So I think consumer demand is still pretty strong just irrespective of what different, economists and pundits were talking about. We still saw a pretty good Black Friday and holiday season. It just wasn't on the goods. That we thought it would be on, these high expense electronics, devices, things of that nature. So it's more along the lines of the beauty and, and health products and, and few clothing products. So I think it's gonna be interesting this year. I think we're gonna still see capacity loosen as demand is going down. But it's not as terrible as some people might want you to believe. It's not like it's, we're seeing a 50% drop in demand. This is more along the lines of like a 25% drop off the highs type of thing. So next year I think we'll see some return to normalcy as, as you can see, the Fed is gonna start to moderate interest rate increases, which will potentially change consumer demand. I think some of the signals that people should be paying attention to along the lines of consumer credit, how much consumer credit is actually being spent. And there are a few charts out there you can take a look at, but that'll be a bellwether for, consumer spending in the market, and retailers are watching those things closely. So stay tuned. I don't have a crystal ball. If I did I probably wouldn't be here, but I think that we'll see a return to normalcy in the second half of next year. And it'll be business as usual.

Tom Raftery: So you're, what you're essentially saying is that there might be an economic downturn. We might actually be in the middle of it. We might. We might actually be coming out of it and be fully out of it by kind of second quarter, sorry, second half next year.

Greg Price: Well, the fun, the technical definition of a recession is two quarters of negative G D P growth, which we've already seen The last, and that was Q1 and q2. Q3 have a slight uptick and what, some people believe is that's kind of a. the dead cat bounce in a way where we're gonna see this little hump and then it's gonna, we're gonna see a slight retraction in Q4 of GDP growth. So technically we're already in one. And, we'll see what Q4 has, to hold and manifest. But I do think that Q4 with, with the Fed's comments we're seeing all the other slowing of the economy, slowing of hiring and job rates. The, change in the unemployment rate. I think all of those signals have kind of shown that there is light at the end of the tunnel for the economy. I think the biggest elements that people are still watching are what is gonna happen with Ukraine and Russia, that that could potentially have some deleterious impacts. They're also interested in Covid and China, and they're looking towards that one of the, the world's largest economy there, second largest of what's gonna happen if they're gonna actually open back up to really help their economy stave off a recession. And so people just don't know and they can't predict those. And I've seen, I think you've seen Apple and Dell and a host of other businesses talk about this. People will be watching that, but certainly the Fed's monetary policy is a po. It's a positive indicator that they're gonna start to moderate increases, which means they've seen the reaction that they want to see from the market, and that will change how businesses react in 2023.

Tom Raftery: Okay. And in situations like this, we start to see customer loyalty become a little more. I dunno, is brittle the right word? Are people becoming more fickle in terms of customer loyalty and becoming more price sensitive as opposed to to brand loyal?

Greg Price: Oh yes. I don't know if it's, customer or brand loyalty as much as it's a complete reconciliation of what a business spends and you've seen for Shipwell, we're gonna have our largest quarter ever in q4. And I think the reason behind that is people actually look for SaaS tools that will actually remove costs. And transportation is the top five line item. And if you're not procuring effectively, then you, you might have cost overruns, but what we saw. Prior to, let's call it March of 2022, you saw a complete runup purchasing growth of SaaS tools, everything from FinTech, marketing, technology. You've seen all of these happen, and I think what's, people are coming back in and they're reconciling all this spend and they're saying, What is absolutely mission critical for us to continue running our business and hit our goals, and where can we potentially cut? And what we're seeing, at least in our business, luckily, is supply chain is an area that is really, really hard to cut.

Tom Raftery: Hmm.

Greg Price: It's a mission critical thing. It keeps the lights on and moving, but there are additional, I think there's discretionary spend that people are cutting back on everything from sales and marketing is where finTech and advertising, you've seen this in Google, you've seen this in Facebook's business. People are spending less on things like AdWords and performance-based marketing. That was one of the first things to actually get cut. I think some of the other things more, from how a business looks at these spend is what is revenue producing and what's not? If I was a CEO in these other shoes, I'm looking at what are the areas that we need to actually show efficiency and buckle down on, and what are those growth opportunities that we overinvested in? And so those things are starting to get cut. And so this is why you see big businesses actually start to cut off projects that either were too early, they can no longer invest in them. Or they're focusing and double down on the actual revenue and money making, producing things. They're making those more efficient. For the consumer, I think you're seeing a lot of the same sort of budgetary process. Hey, what are the absolute must have? I can't have five streaming services. I can have one and so let's, consolidate and cut down. And you see a lot of smart consumers making those sort of decisions. I think they're still gonna have to purchase groceries and beverages and alcohol and clothing and things of that nature, they're gonna go purchase those necessities. But I think they're gonna justify all these other expenses, right? Everything that, that kind of ballooned during covid and beyond, when there was an excess of capital around, and credit. People spent on, so it'll be interesting to see. I think I would be watching closely the, Auto markets. The second biggest thing after a home that consumer purchases. And so it'll be interesting to see what happens there if we see continued purchasing and bringing on of new vehicles, given that interest rates are no longer free. Like there's actually a cost of doing so. And that's one of the, the largest expenses there. So that would be interesting to see. But those are some of the changes. brand loyalty, I don. I think it's gonna be just a reconciliation of cost and where do we spend our money and making sure that we can survive through what could be a multi, quarter and worst case, a multi-year recessionary period.

Tom Raftery: Okay. And there's this whole as well idea of nearshoring, which is gaining ground, I guess. But that seems kind of counter to what you're just saying because you would suspect that nearshoring actually increases costs no?

Greg Price: It does. So let's talk about what that actually means. So like, let's take Apple as an example. If I am manufacturing an air tag, Right. And there is one machine that makes an air tag, and it's in Asia, in China, right? There's not one machine. There's a host of them. But let's say there's one for sake of argument, and this one machine is in Asia and Covid shut it down. You can't make air tags. That's a problem. So what do you gotta do? You buy another machine and you put it in a lower cost labor environment, let's say Europe or Africa. Somewhere in a, somewhere else in EMEA or potentially South America. But that's an additional capital expenditure that Apple needs to take on and purchase. So that will increase their capital expense costs. But it does provide supply chain resiliency, right? You now have two machines, one in South America and one in Asia that can produce air tags. So, but it will increase your capital expenses. So it is more expensive, but it's more resilient. It's traveling up on that it's traveling down on the risk curve, but up on the cost curve on that pareto frontier, if you will. And so Nearshoring is more expensive, but it's more resilient. Your supply chain is more resilient to disruptions. And so if you can model the disruption and what that will potentially cost you in an opportunity cost to sell Apple Air tags. You can back into, well, what's the, is that outweigh the cost and operating for this new machine in South America, which people have, have done, and I guarantee you people have done that sort of calculus inside, inside Apple. I think what what they're probably gonna do is that we'll shift the cost of goods though. So ultimately, If I'm increasing my capital expenses and my supply chain expenses, those have to go somewhere, and those most likely will be shared partially by the consumer. And so I think that goods will become more expensive and everything that's really manufactured in certain areas. So if you're, if you're manufacturing a piece of silicon in T T M S E, right? Then you need to get another piece of silicon manufactured elsewhere, it will become more expensive and you will transfer that cost onto the end consumer. So I think that nearshoring comes with benefits. It comes with more resiliency, but it does come with increased cost and both in the form of capital expenditure, supply chain expenditure, and, and potentially labor. I think interestingly though, if you think about political disruption, which does impact pretty large brands. You could put those supply chains, put those machines in less risky areas, right? So I think that that presents an opportunity for a lot of large brands to actually take a step back and look at what sort of political impacts that could have on our supply chain that could really hamper our business. And they're gonna, they're gonna do that calculus as well.

Tom Raftery: Okay. As I mentioned, we're, you know, December, 2022, probably publishing January, 2023. This is the traditional time of year for the predictions. So predictions for supply chains for 2023 and beyond. What's, what's coming down the line?

Greg Price: Well, I guess everyone has predictions. These are my predictions, so they're almost certainly. I can guarantee they won't come true and they will change, but I think I can talk more about the themes. So I think that we're gonna see a continual tightening of spend. They're gonna look at, they're gonna justify that spend. And one of the areas is transportation, supply chain, everything from fulfillment, demand planning team mentioned to fulfill. Middle mile, last mile and first mile, I think you'll, you'll see a reconciliation of that spend and rates will continue to fall, through the first part of 2023 as consumer spending still trails down. I think that will, that will happen. I think that people are gonna use this time to work on projects that they know will set them up for success in Q3 and Q4 of next year. during that, during that holiday season as the economy rebounds. So you're gonna see things like, people are gonna look at their supply chain networks and they're gonna say, what adjustments do we need to make that allows our supply chain to be more reactive for demand and to be more efficient in terms of cost? And then what does it need to look like to go and do that? It's really, really hard and very, very capitally intensive to add a new node and fulfillment node into your network. And so what smaller mid-market and smaller companies are gonna do is they're gonna go to third parties to try to create a new node and they're gonna justify working capital to go stock that with, with goods so that they can fulfill faster. I think that will happen. And they're gonna be in an interesting position to do that in a more cost effective way because every one of those providers is struggling for demand now. So they're gonna, they're gonna get some deals. And so I think that's another area that's gonna happen. I think consumer spending continues to grow until interest rates are, too prohibitive for you to continue holding that debt on your credit card. I think you're gonna see a, a shift in the labor. We've, we've been in a labor market and it's still overheated in the us I think the most recent stat is for every person there's something like 1.7 or 2.7 jobs openings and, and so the labor market is still a little bit overheated. I think that starts to normalize even more. So I think companies will continue to justify and layoff folks during this time through the holidays, you've seen Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, and now even Google, which are traditionally the last businesses in the market. Cuz there's so much cash that gets generated in those businesses. They can do whatever. And you've seen Google recently start something called they're starting to look at efficiency. Their numbers don't make sense at all in comparison to other businesses. And so they've started SEIs, which are basically a PIP process that Amazon has been, that puts in place for a really long time where they do forced attrition of their workforce. And so I think you'll see more of these big tech businesses continue along that path, which means all of that talent's gonna go somewhere and it's gonna go into these smaller businesses. And so I think if you're a business right now, a technology business, I think there's gonna be an influx of talent to really high quality businesses, and they're gonna create kind of the next businesses of the, this next couple of years that we're gonna see in the public markets So those are my predictions. Take those as you will, don't trade on them. But those are my most, coveted positions.

Tom Raftery: Cool. And would you consider Shipwell, a technology company?

Greg Price: Oh, yes. I think that from our start, we've really invested in helping people modernize and digitize their supply chain. Sometimes we're too technical to a fault, right? We might overcomplicate things and say, we gotta make it really, really simple for folks. I think an interesting opportunity for technology business, coming from m i t and McKinsey and, and some other places. You've gotta meet your, your customers where they are today. And so you don't need to sell a a DeLorean. They're still trying to find a skateboard that'll help 'em get there, and they need to then get to that bike and that car. And so for Shipwell, what was interesting is back in 2016 we started this, we had what was called an electronic B O L, which is a electronic representation of a piece of paper. That people that move goods around and we're like, oh, it's the way everyone should do it. There should be no paper involved. You just signed this thing. And no one used it. They're like, I wanna print this out. And what's interesting is that's where we started. We started way too early in these things that we knew are gonna be the future. And so, We then have now come around full circle because we have so many people on platform now, now they're asking for digital documents and so now we have to meet them where they are and the, and the timing to accept those things. And so from a technology business, you can, run into these situations where it, it might be the best technology might be better than what they're doing now, but if they're, if the industry isn't ready, the timing's not there, it's not gonna get adoption. And so that's kind of where we're at. We have great ideas for the future where we're headed, but one thing is for sure, you will see digital transformation continue in this space as it brings cost down and efficiencies way up.

Tom Raftery: Greg, we're coming towards the end of the podcast now. Is there any question that I didn't ask you that you wish I had or any aspect of this that we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Greg Price: Well, I think the question that I would be asking, from a lot of your listeners is, what are the things that I need to do to set myself up for success in 2023 in supply chain? What are the things that I need to be doing? And because, hey, there's a bunch of layoffs. Hey, demand is completely changing and there's a lot of uncertainties. So what can I do as, a person to really ensure that, that I'm producing value enough and, and my role is safe? I think that that would be one. And my answer to that would be around there's always going to be a market for really strong leadership that shows impact and results. And the first thing is to take a step back and look at what are the areas and elements in our supply chain that we need to focus in on? Is it cost, is it efficiency? Is it setting ourselves up for success in the future? And then bring that dialogue forward to your peers and upwards. So that people can focus their attention on the things that are gonna actually move the needle. And a lot of times because people are always firefighting in this space, there's very little time for that reflection. They can't really see the forest for the trees. And so I think that that element needs to, that's what I would be doing is taking a step back and really seeing the forest for the trees to understand where the opportunity is and then driving towards those outcomes. And that typically works really, really well in a recessionary and inflationary environment that people face themselves in.

Tom Raftery: Very good, very good. Greg, if people would like to know more about yourself or Shipwell or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Greg Price: Well, they can reach out to me. My email, I answer every email, Greg @ shipwell.com. They can also go to shipwell.com and, go through a contact me form to learn more about Shipwell, but I'm happy to kind of chat through all things supply chain and I, it's one of my passions and. I'm happy to kind of talk about any other position that they're facing.

Tom Raftery: Fantastic. Greg, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Greg Price: Yes, thank you. It was uh, a great opportunity and I learned a few things, so, I hope that we can keep in touch in the future. Tom.

Tom Raftery: Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about digital supply chains, simply drop me an email to TomRaftery@outlook.com If you like the show, please don't forget to click Follow on it in your podcast application of choice to be sure to get new episodes as soon as they're published Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find a show. Thanks, catch you all next time.